Pretty stupid comment on your part
Ukraine was part of the USSR at that time so how is that relevant??
Ukraine has not waged war on any nation after separating from USSR in 1991.

I see you have a very superficial knowledge of history. Ukraine, together with NATO, waged war in Iraq, as well as in a number of other countries to a lesser extent.

Ukraine isn’t and was never a part of NATO.

Pretty stupid comment on your part
Ukraine was part of the USSR at that time so how is that relevant??
Ukraine has not waged war on any nation after separating from USSR in 1991.

I see you have a very superficial knowledge of history. Ukraine, together with NATO, waged war in Iraq, as well as in a number of other countries to a lesser extent.

Ukraine isn’t and was never a part of NATO.

Did I say that Ukraine is part of NATO?

[zaqqaz000]

@ mkz and others
Have some simple human decency, this not the time and place to troll,
even if you don't like a homeowner at least don't shit on his sofa

Slava Oukraïni!

From a Belgian friend who is impressed by the courage of Ukrainian soldiers but also the civilians against the oppressor

Did I say that Ukraine is part of NATO?

You implied Ukraine fought "together with NATO" as if it participated to the same degree as actual NATO members. This is not the case: it is true that in the Iraq war Ukraine fought on the USA's side, but not during the invasion, only the post-invasion phase. Ukraine only had a peak of 1,650 troops during that time period.

It seems that Russia did not learn its lesson in Afghanistan when literally a rag tag group of rebels defeated and brought the mighty Empire to its knees.
This time they are fighting with a highly sophisticated and dedicated people with nearly the support of the whole world.
Russian will learn another bitter lesson.
Long live Ukraine

A major difference is that the Soviet Union defeated the conventional army and struggled with guerilla warfare from the mountains. In contrast, Russia is unable to defeat Ukraine’s conventional forces on flat terrain.

Disk4mat, were you anti-Russia before 2014, adapt those views after 2014, or after February 2022?

Ukrainian children in occupied territories who are separated from their families or with dead parents are routinely deported to Russia; orphaned into Russian families to be assimilated. An estimated 260,000 to 700,000 Ukrainian children have been deported so far.

Also, while I understand your dislike towards Russia, I don’t think exaggeration would help your cause.

[Henry2]

Disk4mat, were you anti-Russia before 2014, adapt those views after 2014, or after February 2022?

Ukrainian children in occupied territories who are separated from their families or with dead parents are routinely deported to Russia; orphaned into Russian families to be assimilated. An estimated 260,000 to 700,000 Ukrainian children have been deported so far.

Also, while I understand your dislike towards Russia, I don’t think exaggeration would help your cause.

...dirty politics. It won't affect the side people.

[Disk4mat]

@jaydenjoo, I would hope it's an exaggeration but its unlikely. There are two sets of numbers we can work with: identified cases and estimates. According to the official database: https://childrenofwar.gov.ua/ - there are 19489 deported children who have been identified. However, identifying a minor taken from occupied territory is difficult. The real number is certainly much higher.

Let's talk about the estimates. According to data from open sources published by Russia, 744,000 children were deported. This is an upper estimate, possibly unrealistic because Russia wants to report a high number of Ukrainians deported, who it presumes in the future will be part of Russian society. Kateryna Rashevska, a lawyer at the Regional Center for Human Rights, estimated that Russia has deported between 260,000 and nearly 700,000 minors. The NGO "UA Experts", estimated that Russia kidnapped over 100,000 children.

This is one of the most sensitive issues both for Ukrainians and the international community. On March 17, 2023, the International Criminal Court issued an arrest warrant for Putin and Maria Lvova-Belova, Russia's Commissioner for Children’s Rights in Russia, who oversaw the abduction, deportations and adoption of Ukrainian children from occupied territories. It's telling that this was the reason, rather than anything else about the war, for which the ICC issued a warrant for Putin's arrent. Even at the lower estimates, the scale of the tragedy is immense.

Regarding your second question, I wouldn't look at it in binary terms. It's not whether I was anti-Russian or not but a question of extent. Before 2014 pro-Western Ukrainians worked towards making Ukraine a more European nation, with free markets, strong press, independent court system, reduced corruption, etc. Those of us who held such views were anti-Russian because Russia represented a different worldview, which it promoted through allied political parties and press and the portion of the Ukrainian population nostalgic for the Soviet Union. Additionally many knew Ukraine's history and were further opposed to Russia on that basis. I wouldn't say I hated Russia, but I wanted Ukraine to move away from it politically, culturally and economically. After the Revolution of Dignity and Russia seizing Crimea and Donbas, this became hatred. After 2022 those feelings were confirmed and amplified.

@jaydenjoo, I would hope it's an exaggeration but its unlikely. There are two sets of numbers we can work with: identified cases and estimates. According to the official database: https://childrenofwar.gov.ua/ - there are 19489 deported children who have been identified. However, identifying a minor taken from occupied territory is difficult. The real number is certainly much higher.

Let's talk about the estimates. According to data from open sources published by Russia, 744,000 children were deported. This is an upper estimate, possibly unrealistic because Russia wants to report a high number of Ukrainians deported, who it presumes in the future will be part of Russian society. Kateryna Rashevska, a lawyer at the Regional Center for Human Rights, estimated that Russia has deported between 260,000 and nearly 700,000 minors. The NGO "UA Experts", estimated that Russia kidnapped over 100,000 children.

This is one of the most sensitive issues both for Ukrainians and the international community. On March 17, 2023, the International Criminal Court issued an arrest warrant for Putin and Maria Lvova-Belova, Russia's Commissioner for Children’s Rights in Russia, who oversaw the abduction, deportations and adoption of Ukrainian children from occupied territories. It's telling that this was the reason, rather than anything else about the war, for which the ICC issued a warrant for Putin's arrent. Even at the lower estimates, the scale of the tragedy is immense.

One reason I'm skeptical is simply how obvious such a large operation would be. Even the lower estimated would mean nearly everyone living in Russian-occupied territory would know someone whose child(ren) had been deported to Russia. And it would involve thousands of trains or hundreds of thousands of trucks leaing for the east with children. But I don't hear that many reports or new articles concerning it, with all the news about it making sure to say it was just a 'claim', when such a large operation would be so obvious denying it happened would be impossible even for pro-Russian trolls.

Also, at this point, Russia basically seems like a cartoon villain, cackling away at all the damage they have caused, instead of a selfish country doing what (they think) is in their best interests even at the expense of others that they are. So I do have some skepticism about claims of massacres or forced deportations.

[Disk4mat]

One reason I'm skeptical is simply how obvious such a large operation would be. Even the lower estimated would mean nearly everyone living in Russian-occupied territory would know someone whose child(ren) had been deported to Russia. And it would involve thousands of trains or hundreds of thousands of trucks leaing for the east with children. But I don't hear that many reports or new articles concerning it, with all the news about it making sure to say it was just a 'claim', when such a large operation would be so obvious denying it happened would be impossible even for pro-Russian trolls.

Also, at this point, Russia basically seems like a cartoon villain, cackling away at all the damage they have caused, instead of a selfish country doing what (they think) is in their best interests even at the expense of others that they are. So I do have some skepticism about claims of massacres or forced deportations.

You're missing an important piece of context. Russia is not hiding the deportation of Ukrainian children, it's proud of it.

One of the reasons the ICC issued an arrest warrant for Putin and Maria Lvova-Belova for this is because of how transparent and vocal Russia has been about it. You can find plenty of footage here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNAAC1kX5kE and there's tons on Russian social networks and news.

You can also read the UN Human Rights Report here: https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/fil ... AUV_EN.pdf - the part about children is on page 14 and isn't that long.

You're missing an important piece of context. Russia is not hiding the deportation of Ukrainian children, it's proud of it.

One of the reasons the ICC issued an arrest warrant for Putin and Maria Lvova-Belova for this is because of how transparent and vocal Russia has been about it. You can find plenty of footage here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNAAC1kX5kE and there's tons on Russian social networks and news.

You can also read the UN Human Rights Report here: https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/fil ... AUV_EN.pdf - the part about children is on page 14 and isn't that long.

I made a major mistake of assuming Russia would at least attempt to pretend they have basic human decency. Even while reading Russian authorities admitting to such a cruel act, I thought to myself that there was some missing context and it was a small operation in special cases, but apparantly not.

[miguel1984]

Slava Ukraini.

Putin es un hijo de putin ni es momento con los tiempos que corren siglo xxi. la ha cagado en pensar que son una super potencia mundial que iban a Ucrania adjuntar a rusia y la ha cagado espero que los rusos se espabilen y lo haga pagar.

Є люди і є тварини! Росіяни в першу чергу примітивні тварини, якщо ще гірше! Тому є тільки один вихід і мета: «Винищити всіх»! Честь України - шана героям і героїням!

Slava Oukraïni!

I never made a post before....But today, as I've seen this thread for the first time, I just felt compelled to tell you how much I admire the courage of your soldiers and of your people!

I hope this war will end as soon as possible with YOUR victory against such a cruel and vindictive tyrant!

Slava Ukraini! Pidtrymka z Avstraliyi!